+22 "College is a scam" is a sentiment held by people who are either insecure they don't have a degree, or people with degrees that are just starting their careers. amirite?

by Anonymous 1 week ago

I'd also add people who lack nuance. Some places can be scam, some degrees can be scams, some programs for certain degrees can be scams (vs other programs at other colleges and universities), but the idea of higher education isn't in of itself a scam, IMO, even with all the issues that are present in academia.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

This is basically what I came here to say. College (and higher education in general) isn't a scam in and of itself. It's what you want to do with it and what you choose to major in that could make it be considered a "scam"

by Anonymous 1 week ago

I work in software development and every single time I interview they absolutely love that I have a 4 year degree. I don't think I learned as much as I needed to at that college but I do think that it shows potential employers that I can at least handle 4 years of focus on writing code. ALOT of developers from boot camps burn out very quickly in my experience.

by Substantial-Food 1 week ago

I've been in this field for a decade, they still like that I have the degree

by Substantial-Food 1 week ago

Depends on what field I guess. At my work they need at least bachelors to go up in leadership.

by Neither-Pangolin-216 1 week ago

How much of that data is skewed by the socio-economic status of the individuals that are able to get into university in the first place?

by Impossible-One 1 week ago

300k for a lifetime adds up to jack squat

by Anonymous 1 week ago

I had to scroll down so far for someone to say that, 300k really is not much a difference.

by Mission-Nature5718 1 week ago

A 300k return on an investment is a good investment.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Don't get a social science degree then

by Qblock 1 week ago

I have a Master's. I did the college thing. It didn't get me the "good life" I was promised by the adults who sold me the "everyone needs to go to college" lie as a kid. I work in a field I didn't study. College is the biggest scam of our generation unless you're going down a very specific career path that requires it (doctor, lawyer, etc.) Fortunately, my Gen. Z niblings have seen the light and have chosen alternative pathways (military, trades, etc.)

by Anonymous 1 week ago

When people say that, they're referring to the egregious cost that's exponentially higher than it used to be coupled with the uncertainty of ever being able to reasonably pay it off.

by TrainingDesigner 1 week ago

This exactly

by Anonymous 1 week ago

45M with 2 masters...it is a scam. Anymore, I recommend kids go to vocational school and become a plumber, electrician, machinist, etc. it's really hard to justify starting your career with $60+k in debt for an undergrad, entering into am oversaturated college grad pool. Take a trade, learn, and own your own business...that's where the money is.

by Bartolettisophi 1 week ago

College is a scam in regards to what was promised to us. We all heard get a college degree and they falsely equate to a degree = high earning potential regardless of the degree. A computer engineering person making 200k skews the average of an arts major and you have data that broadly suggest, degree = more pay. What is overlooked is that the great rush of college degrees made other completely viable sources like vocational or trade school have a negative stigma. I'm I'm construction and every journeyman in every trade makes 6 figures and they got paid to go to school. My wife took 2 years of vocational school for x ray and now makes 100k in CT Tech. College is a scam on how it's portrayed and now it's oversaturated and the ROI diminishes as college gets more expensive and more people have degrees.

by tcasper 1 week ago

Median isn't the average. The median is the middle where most salaries cluster. The median salary isn't going to be skewed by high earners.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Guess that guy's college math courses weren't too rigorous.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Promised to us? I was never under the impression that college is a ticket to a high paying job, just that it will give you opportunities, which it does.

by Cristdrake 1 week ago

At 16, when you saw the graph pushed on by your teachers and school counselors that falsely compared a non degree worker earning potential vs a college degree earning potential....what was your conclusion?

by tcasper 1 week ago

On average degree holders make more, which is 100% true. Can you make a boat load of money with no degree? Yes. Can you be broke with a degree? yes. But, what happens on average? who has more opportunities and doors open for them?

by Cristdrake 1 week ago

A scam implies dishonesty. The information is presented to students, and they can make their own decision. If you get a degree without researching potential careers, that is on you, not the college.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Plenty of people get worthless degrees and no real job or career from the degree and meanwhile are in a mountain of debt. So yes, college can be a scam. There are plenty of alternative routes such as trade schools and believe it or not there are industries that don't require a college degree to thrive. Sounds to me that you just got an elitist attitude to justify your particular route in life.

by aletha46 1 week ago

Plenty of those successful people with "worthless degrees" succeed in spite of them, not because of them. Education level and actual job performance have essentially zero correlation at 99% of jobs.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Someone getting a worthless degree that sets them up poorly for life after college doesn't make college a scam. That person just made a poor life choice.

by Background_Course538 1 week ago

It's the education part that's the most important

by naomie67 1 week ago

Cope. If it's not STEM or something specialized like law I really don't see the point. Entering the workforce earlier and self educating on the job for 4 year is infinitely better than wasting 4 years getting an economics degree.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

You realize that the best training for a law degree is a bachelor's in English (rhetoric), philosophy (logic), and history (context), right? You don't just show up at law school in the US.

by Expensive-Ice 1 week ago

So you're cool with your house being designed by someone who isn't n architect? Or you're ok with your radiologist just getting certificates from a cereal box?! That's wild. Progress depends on as many people being as educated as possible lol

by Anonymous 1 week ago

maybe there's more to education than just getting a higher paying job.

by Savings_Let 1 week ago

free online or at your local library. Even if that's true (which it isn't; few people are capable of 100% self directed study) anyone who says that almost never actually does that.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Source?

by Anonymous 1 week ago

College graduates 😅

by Worth-Treacle 1 week ago

why isnt it true?

by Worth-Treacle 1 week ago

Because self directed study is very difficult. Remember it's not just for one class, you have to lay out everything you're studying for your entire education.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Yeah but just because something is difficult doesnt negate its validity.

by Worth-Treacle 1 week ago

College offers a lot that self directed study doesn't.. pedagogy, clubs, athletics, labs, research, extensive networks, career guidance, etc

by ameliemitchell 1 week ago

Okay sure, and youre claiming self directed study isnt valid because it doesnt come with the proof of knowledge, being the degree itself.

by Worth-Treacle 1 week ago

And of course knowing what you need to know

by Anonymous 1 week ago

I do agree there are alot of people in college who cant study on their own.

by Worth-Treacle 1 week ago

It isn't just picking up a book or whatever and reading it. It is immensely important to participate in seminar discussions which are mediated by actual experts. The online thing can't replicate that, and a library card and internet access definitely can't replicate that. You also need to have your work reviewed by peers and experts; otherwise, there is no quality control and all you have is an amateur opinion. One reason for the pandemic of self-diagnosing, for example, is that laypeople have neither the background, expertise, experience, nor the methodology to be capable of such things.

by Expensive-Ice 1 week ago

Sure and I agree, but thats also like saying well I went to school for accounting so I wont understand virology. Somebkdy can have an interest and have a very informed opinion regardless if they hold a degree. Appeal to authority isnt always the best route.

by Worth-Treacle 1 week ago

People don't know what they don't know. Your opinion on virology is worthless outside the context of a casual conversation with other laypeople unless you're exceptional and have the expert peers to back you up. Smart opinions are based on what you know, yes, but they have no validity without consensus. You can parrot what experts say, but you can never claim any sort of expertise if you have no formal training.

by Expensive-Ice 1 week ago

Nope. Went to college, have a Masters in info tech, am very successful. Still believe it's a scam because nothing I learned in college has ever mattered to my actual jobs.

by IcyDoctor 1 week ago

I don't think it's a scam if you're there for a good reason. Doctors, lawyers, Dentist you know things we need degrees for but when someone tells me they're in college and getting a degree in communications then yeah. I know so many people with those degrees working customer service, banks, and other jobs like that, I just think people need to research what degree they want and if there's jobs that pay a good wage for it

by Early-Mood 1 week ago

A more accurate saying is "Student loans are a scam and are holding our college education hostage"

by Anonymous 1 week ago

I was 20 years old when I learned it was a scam. Transferring from CC to 4yr, my intro to math 102 and English 102 wouldn't transfer. I had to retake them again. This was in 84'

by Josefajohnston 1 week ago

I think there is some confusion over cause and effect in that paragraph. The kind of student/family who rejects college and hates academia would also be more likely to distrust doctors and avoid vaccines, fall for conspiracy theories, get married young without thinking too hard about it, and make other bad life decisions. Those characteristics indicate low IQs, and even mandating 4 years of college for each of them would not change their staunchly anti-intellectual culture. And they'd probably be driven to distraction by all of the "wokeness" around them at a college anyway.

by margarettepauce 1 week ago

There are certainly some "scammy" degree's and institutions out there. But overall you're right.

by Affectionate-Sign203 1 week ago

Nothing is promised in this life, except for death and taxes. That being said, there are definitely other ways to advance your pay without attending college. I do agree that college can be beneficial in the long run.

by bridietrantow 1 week ago

"College is a scam" College is overpriced. FTFY. Tuition cost should be reflective of the major you choose and the current job market at time of enrollment. Better chance of ROI (STEM, nursing) should cost more. Worse chance of ROI (history, theater) should cost less.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

I don't think college itself is a scam. I think adding interest on thousands of dollars in loans is a scam. There is essentially no way to avoid paying more than the loans you took out, which is a scam. To be fair though, I am in my 20s and I haven't graduated yet (next month). I'm graduating with a doctorate and I feel like my debt will basically exceed any salary I'll get, at least for a while

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Depends on the college. If it is some diploma mill with an average SAT around 1100 and a 90% acceptance rate… seems pretty scammy

by Kuvalisalejandr 1 week ago

The scam part isn't the knowledge or connections you gain, it's the $2000-$60,000 of tuition you pay that puts you in debt for the next 10-30 years.

by Kiel83 1 week ago

College will only benefit people who are smart, driven, and capable. Otherwise you'll just fail and suffocate.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Don't forget the people who expect that university is like trade school. That it trains you for a specific job.

by Gullible-Bus 1 week ago

I don't think college itself is the problem, moreover that most jobs that really shouldn't require a degree do so you're forced to go. I work in security and even an entry-level job, paying $17/hr, you need a 2 year degree for when the reality is you can train anyone to do it in just a few days.

by ari73 1 week ago

Degree in Philosoohy, Latin and a law degree If I had to do it over again, I wouldn't. You can learn outside of college too.

by Hanemarilou 1 week ago

College is not inherently a scam. There are a ton of scammy side hustles young folks are falling for that are not easy to avoid. If you owe more than first year salary coming out of college you are financially doomed and have no chance of catching up until your salary equals what you owe. Thats a crazy amount of people who have been convinced they must go to college who are dooming themselves by making that decision.

by uluettgen 1 week ago

If you go 100k in debt to study women's studies, that's no one's fault but your own It takes literally 2 seconds to google career outcomes for various degrees. There's no excuse.

by Trick-Vegetable-3551 1 week ago

going to school for an art degree may be a scam, but going to college for something like accounting or something of that nature are not. Plus at college, you have access to things such as career fairs, connections, resources that are only available as a student. Now yea a sociology degree prolly aint gonna make alot, but this is why you always do your research on degrees.

by Ok-Gold 1 week ago

I worked for a college for 7 years. College is a scam.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

What OP is trying to point out is that, statistically speaking, college graduates earn more income over a lifetime than non-graduates. I also don't see how a college degree correlates with horrible work ethic. Part of the reason employers love four-year degrees so much is because it shows a willingness to commit long-term to a goal and to achieve that goal. Sorry your experience working with college grads is so poor, but what you are describing is just not reality in a broad sense. College grads absolutely have it better (and are worth more to employers) than non-grads.

by Much_Dragonfly 1 week ago

I think there's some truth to it and I think it's multi layered First off, some colleges have basically introduced window dressing to their campuses to excuse absurd fee hikes. They're like "so its $50,000 a year, before you say that sounds like a lot we do have a swimming pool and a gym so…" I saw a report on this one campus that basically built their own water park specifically so they could justify inflated costs to tuition. Why would a university have a water park? Beats the hell out of me I think it's a scam insofar as people seem less educated overall relative to three generations ago but they pay a lot more for it. If more people are attending college than ever then just economically speaking it should be getting cheaper due to more people funding the overall system. But it's somehow gotten more expensive despite having more customers than ever? That's a valid criticism

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Actually, collage is a scam because you shouldn't have to trade an asinine arbitrarily made-up amount of a completely made-up thing for anything, let alone knowledge.

by framiwilbert 1 week ago

I'd say college is what you make of it, however it is full of very shady practices. But I mean so is the government, and most corporations so....

by wbrown 1 week ago

You missed your statistics 101 class where correlational does not equal causation. Here are a few questions for you to consider. What is the difference in family income of people who can go to college and those who can't and how does family of origin income effect the child's income? Whats the work ethic difference between people who attend college and people who don't? What is the intelligence difference between people who attend college and people who don't? What I am getting at, is the average person who would get a PhD kicks the financial ass of a person who would get a bachelors even if neither of them attend college. The average PhD has a better work ethic, family support system and is smarter than the average bachelors. I would like to see better statistics to get me the value of college. College selects for high performers. Give me a controlled study of people with the same family income growing up, work ethic and intelligence and then we can calculate the value of college.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Historically colleges a scam is a line that has been used by people that couldn't get into college

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Lol Insecure? I don't have a degree, make more than my brother who's a Chemist and I'm not in debt. I know I made the right choice.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

maybe that's just me, but this is all blatantly obvious. The people who yap the loudest about college being a scam are either failed college-students, or uneducated anti-intellectual morons. I think there is a lot of ways in which the college system isn't perfect, obviously, and you can have a 10 hour nuanced discussion about this in which very smart and valuable things are said. But at the end of the day, rejecting the entire system like that is the the domain of, well... you know exactly who they are.

by EfficiencyHealthy341 1 week ago

Just say facists? Who do you mean?

by Anonymous 1 week ago

"College is a scam" say people with a degree from Trump University.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

what does this have to do with politics?

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Everything. Anti-intellectualism is a common sentiment amongst the political right-wing.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

I majored in engineering and went to law school while most of my peers majored in Poly Sci and history and were pretty happy about it It's all about what you make of it really I would like to describe my hatred for the self taught historians and social scientists who just read what's online and boast about how "well all the information is just on google now"

by Ok_Yellow2095 1 week ago

Dang. You brought the receipts.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

The main point of college is to show you can commit to something for four years and see it through. It helps weed out the flakes who are gonna quit after a week. It is also to show you can succeed without your parents pushing you every step of the way

by uriahgorczany 1 week ago

If you only go to class and go back to your room, don't join any clubs, don't network, and try to get an internship ... then yeah you're cooked. That's on you.

by Original_Impress 1 week ago

Higher education itself isnt a scam, the "scam" comes from the mentality of high school educators and guidance counselors who told students that any degree is good enough to land you a good paying career. Well that may have been true in years gone by but that no longer holds any truth. I've said it in the past and i will say it again. If you are going to go into 6 figure debt, you better be damn sure that the degree you will walk out with will allow you to actually get a good paying job.

by bruendakota 1 week ago

The average student loan debt for an undergraduate degree is 30k. The people with 6 figure debt are professionals who largely out-earn everyone.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

I think an aspect of the conversation needs to be that one of the biggest and best things it can offer to those who are willing to learn this lesson is: focus, effort, hard work, discipline, and the benefits of proper time management. More than anything, that is what I benefitted from when I returned to college after dropping out at 19 and eventually graduating with an A average. I learned how to put in effort and hard work, and how to be a good learner. If people are just going to college and skating by or putting in minimal effort/finding ways to cheat through it, then they are gonna come out on the other end having gained nothing really useful or worthwhile. Maybe they learned a bit about a specific field, but if their mentality and approach was immature and unwise, then they probably barely retained any of that even.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Most importantly a lot of people live in little bubbles. Especially outside certain majors. Everyone they work with also went to college and they don't really get the cleaner for their office that comes in a 6:30 after they leave is getting paid ~1/2 what they get. They fully think $90,000 is a normal salary for a 28 year old

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Or someone who has a degree but has to work something completely different

by Anonymous 1 week ago

I always eye roll when I see stuff like that. Especially since just anecdotally just an AA degree helped give me a huge edge in an interview for a way better sales gig that nearly tripled my income.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Hmmm idk….my husband's degree has paid off pretty well and it's not STEM.

by Anonymous 1 week ago