Charging your phone exclusively in your car kind of makes it gasoline-powered, amirite?

Charging your electric car with a generator results in similar findings.

by Advanced_Fan8347 1 week ago

Weirdly, that's still more gas efficient than using a gasoline car. Because generators can run at the speed that is most efficient rather than the speed you want to move the car.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Very, very marginally. Sure, generator can run at peak efficiency, but you're adding two extra conversions to the mix which eat all the savings.

by Brandynmedhurst 1 week ago

It's not that marginal. IIRC a car idling is less than half the efficiency of peak efficiency of the engine (which is ~30-35%). Also, adding two extra conversions? I mean if your house is solar powered, sure but where do you think the energy of a grid-powered house comes from? Still, it's very inefficient to charge your phone from the car (albeit it's a really small amount of energy).

by mgusikowski 1 week ago

Are we still talking about charging the EV with the gas generator? It is very marginal, if more efficient at all. Take, for example, Honda EU70is. It has a rated power of 5.5 kW and can run for 6.5 hours at full blast on a full tank of petrol (19.2 L). Which gives us 5.5 * 6.5 / 19.2 = 1.86 kWh/L. The combustion energy of the petrol is 8.9 kWh/L, so the generator efficiency is 1.86 / 8.9 * 100% = 21%. On the other hand, the brake-specific fuel consumption of the typical Toyota Prius engine running at optimal load is 220 g/kWh. With the petrol density of 750 g/L gives us 750 / 220 = 3.4 kWh / L and an efficiency of 3.4 / 8.9 * 100% = 38%, almost double that of the generator. So even if we assume that the ICE car runs, on average, at half the peak efficiency (the real figure is closer to 70-80%, and over 90% on the highway), charging EV with the gas generator (after we account for charging losses) is less efficient than using that gas to run an ICE car.

by Brandynmedhurst 1 week ago

To run the most efficient ice car in the market?

by Gold_Economist 1 week ago

Nope :) A lot of car engines have similar BSFC figures at optimal load. Table from Wiki.

by Brandynmedhurst 1 week ago

Wow it seems like all we need to do to get to 99% efficiency is build an engine the size of a planet

by Gold_Economist 1 week ago

Sorry, seems like I missed one

by mgusikowski 1 week ago

Even if it is "very, very marginally" better, that still proves it is worth pursuing. The grid will continue to be more efficient I'd imagine. However, it is actually much more efficient than marginally. An EV is around 80-90% efficient going from the coal plant to the power on the road. So that brings the total combined efficiency of a powerplant +EV to 48% which is more than the 35% thermal efficiency of an ICE.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Yep, three conversions, forgot AC to DC. But the third one in my estimate is DC to chemical (the actual charging process) which also incurs losses. So it's actually five :)

by Brandynmedhurst 1 week ago

This is sort of true and false at the same time. Ideally, yes, if you used a car engine that ran at a constant RPM to run a generator that would be more efficient. However, generators, at least smaller home ones that are just powerful enough to charge a single car, don't have the same kind of technology in them to get the levels of efficiency that an expensive automotive engine does.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

The EVs were the most efficient gasoline cars after all 🤯

by Bkreiger 1 week ago

Cars can use the speed that's most efficient because they have these things called gears.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

No because of torque loads etc. if that were true, your engine would always have the exact same rpm.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

You could do that with a CVT if you program the transmission to do that

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Generators have the advantage of only running at absolute peak efficiency, cars only mostly stay in the vague peak area. Accelerating from a standstill is horribly fuel hungry.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

i feel like this cant possibly be right.

by Friedrich28 1 week ago

If gas cars ran their engines at peak efficiency, it wouldn't be. But they can't. There's an optimal rpm and load. A car engine needs to vary its speed and has varying torque demands. It's looses a lot of efficiency because of this. A generator can be tuned to always run at the best speed and load. Electric motors are very efficient so the loss of converting from gas to motion to electricity and back to motion is less than the loss from using a gas engine directly

by Anonymous 1 week ago

It is, and it isn't. Running an electric generator to power your electric car is probably not any more efficient. Technically, electric motors are more energy efficient than a combustion engine. So, with a proper electric generator that was purpose built for charging electric cars, it would actually give you noticeably higher MPG.

by EquivalentSilly6074 1 week ago

Because it's not. Ford's mach-e has a battery capacity of 98.8kwh. found an article claiming gasoline generators are about 8-10kwh per gallon of gas, which would put it at about 12gal to charge the mach-e battery for 376km. Or about 31mpg. And the normal ford Mustang fastback is 33mpg highway. Also with a 16gal tank for a longer range.

by Dianadonnelly 1 week ago

I am surprised that these numbers are so close. I would guess that losses in converting gas to electricity in the generator would be huge.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Converting movement to energy is dang near 100% efficient, as is converting energy to movement. It's the liquid dinosaurs to movement conversion that is horribly inefficient. Generators do have the advantage of only running at peak efficiency.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

and you can make them bigger since they don't have to ride piggyback on a car which makes them more efficient then their smaller build in siblings.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Charging your EV in a place whose electricity mix is fossil fuels is similar also

by Cool_Accountant 1 week ago

No

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Psst... That's why you need a Grid that can handle all the energy sources. So that you can pump any electricity to the grid. Then only we can harness gerbil power. Millions of gerbil running wheel generayor. Did you know gerbils are carnivores. Cannibals too. Ultimate recyclers.

by SessionPossible 1 week ago

Exclusively? Unless you're a trucker that's some psychotic behavior.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Bill Wurtz voice: "Learn to use an outlet."

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Why though? I I mean, there's a time once a month when I charge my phone elsewhere, but the majority of the cases I simply charge it on my way to work. What's wrong with that.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Even if you are a trucker, it would be diesel powered not gas powered.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

It's just petty semantics until you accidentally fill up your tank with the wrong fuel

by Anonymous 1 week ago

One absolutely kills the other, and the other way around, you only need a flush, and your tank pumped out.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

My phone charges so fast and the battery lasts so long that I forgot I even had to charge it for 2 years. I plug it into my car for music & GPS on my way to and from work every day and it's at 100% when I get out of the car. The battery easily lasted up to 3 days, but quite honestly I probably rarely went more than 1 without driving somewhere. It got to the point that I didn't even know where to find a phone charger in my house. My only charger was in my car. So yeah my phone was 100% gasoline powered for like 2 years. Nowadays my battery isn't quite as good and I often charge it at home again.

by Soggy_Cockroach 1 week ago

Even my blender runs on gas, Can't escape this energy loop

by Anonymous 1 week ago

And the lights on my bicycle are powered by me so that makes me a firefly.

by jeremie74 1 week ago

By that same logic you could say everything is solar powered

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Not true for nuclear or fusion power. Geothermal energy as well.

by AnnualUnited7933 1 week ago

That's a good point

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Technically, every single element except protium (I think) is the result of interactions happening inside stars, or as a consequence of the stellar lifecycle.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

You need humans to maintain it, and without the sun humans won't survive, so even that is technically marginally solar powered because some components of it rely on the sun

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Humans could theoretically be fully sustained in a bunker using nuclear power to grow crops and recycle water.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

All of life on earth

by Anonymous 1 week ago

It really depends on how deep the rabbit hole goes. Like, solar, wind, even coal or oil, yeah that makes sense. What about geothermal? Is the planet being formed "solar" energy just because gravity kept things in orbit? What about nuclear? Technically the elements were fused in a star somewhere, but is that really 'solar' powered?

by Anonymous 1 week ago

But stars only exist because of gravity, so really it's gravity powered

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Hydroelectric is gravity powered by the earth. While the matter might be from a star at one point, the earth is providing all the energy.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Nope. My car is a diesel. 😝

by sreinger 1 week ago

I have a 50kWh battery bank with wheels that I fill up with sunshine. My phone is solar powered.

by Claudiesimonis 1 week ago

Charging at home means its partially nuclear powered

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Nope then It would be solar and wind powered

by Objective_Couple 1 week ago

Wait till you hear how the electricity is generated that comes to the house. Fossil fuels assemble!

by Content-Put-2118 1 week ago

The electricity in your house is most likely generated by oil too, maybe coal. That being said, isn't your phone charging off of your car's battery?

by Brave-Finish-2250 1 week ago

Yeah but the battery keeps charge due to the alternator which is powered by the gasoline engine

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Depends on where you live. I'm my state, the vast majority of energy is hydro power, with less than 5% being coal. …we're currently trying to cull that past little bit.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Really depends where you live. Nuclear energy and hydroelectric contribute huge portions of the power grid in many parts of the world, in many parts they're pretty much the entire grid.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Very very little electricity is generated using oil. A lot is generated using natural gas and coal however.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Unless your car is an electric vehicle…

by Dry_Deer_4988 1 week ago

Which are usually charged by energy infrastructure which is by and large oil and gas!

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Damn.

by Dry_Deer_4988 1 week ago

It's all gas powered. That's the problem.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Well then my electric toothbrush is nuclear powered

by rowebrian 1 week ago

Wait if you keep going back... That means it's animal powered... And then plant powered... And then solar powered... Fusion powered.... So your phone is fusion powered? Are there any more layers?

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Instructions unclear. Phone now smells funny and is inoperable.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

I have left a 750KVA generator running because I was charging my phone. That may be the moat inefficient thing I've ever done.

by Rosemarie97 1 week ago

I drive a Tesla, so no.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Some of the power from the grid comes from fossil fuels. Your phone is a hybrid.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

You'll be shocked to discover how energy is by and large produced

by Anonymous 1 week ago

By turning a generator?

by Anonymous 1 week ago

Where I live 91% of the electricity is generated by a mix of Uranium Hydro and Wind, so, this isn't true in all places. My phone is mostly nuclear powered when I charge it at home.

by Soggy_Cockroach 1 week ago

Nope. You can charge your phone in your car even if you ran out of gas, as long as your car battery is charged.

by Anonymous 1 week ago

And the car battery is constantly being recharged by a generator which is powered by the engine running.

by AnnualUnited7933 1 week ago